Time We Discuss: Gilbert Chocolates, Gourmet Chocolatiers with Brian and Sally Krichbaum

Transcription

(Music)

Brian Krichbaum: The owner looked at the plan and he looked at me and he said, I am too old for this, took a candy bar home gave it to Sally and said, about buying a chocolate company?

Dan: Today on Time We Discuss, I want to welcome Brian and Sally Krichbaum. It's time we discuss what it's like being gourmet chocolatiers. Brian and Sally, thank you for joining me today. good to be here.

Brian Krichbaum: Thanks for having us.

Dan: Absolutely. This is cool. So first off, I haven't had any chocolatiers or anything remotely like this on the show before. So this is very exciting for me. I have an awful sweet tooth. So this is doubly exciting from that perspective. And also, I haven't had the opportunity to interview two people at the same time. Actually, that's not true. One other time I did that. So this is kind of a unique experience for me. I really, really like this. It's gonna be a lot, a lot of fun. Sally, I'm going to start with you. What is a typical day like you are owners of a gourmet chocolate shop. So let's talk about what is a typical day like for you?

Sally Krichbaum: We have different roles. So we actually have a factory we make candy, we more than just selling it. So it didn't for me, a lot of its book work that I do. There is a lot of reviewing of the front, the storefront, we actually have three stores, but we have a storefront in front of our factory. And then it's Oh, it's also eating candy to do

Brian Krichbaum: I do most of the purchasing the logistics. have an engineering background, which makes me the maintenance man here. So I've told my our associates in the past, you don't have to break something every day just to make me feel good. So now, we've been around 125 years. And a lot of the equipment we use has also been around 125 years. So you have to be good at fixing things to keep it running. And so that's a big part of my job. The other is just, you know, like, I think typical of being a good manager of people, you know, spending time talking to the to the ladies who are making the chocolates, and making sure that we're all on the same page and keep going forward. This time of year, we're getting ready for Christmas here. So it can be crazy. And people need to chat, you know, they just need to tell you what they're thinking about. And so we spend a lot of time I spend a lot of time doing that too.

Dan: From when we were talking before we started recording, you said you are the fourth owners of this business, this business has been going for 125 years, give or take. So how long ago did you actually take over the business? At what point did that happen?

Sally Krichbaum: We bought it on November 1, 2013. The the owner that we that we purchased it from, I think he was quite mean, made selling it on November 1. Because we were very green, we had never done retail in our lives. And here he let us have it right at Christmas season. But he did, he is a good friend actually. And he stayed with us for about a year, offering some council when we needed it and that sort of thing. But it was quite the adventure to start off the way did.

Dan: Okay, one of the things I like to talk about on my show, I like to talk about two different ends of the spectrum. The one is people that are just entering their professional career and what opportunities they have. And then at the other end, people that are mid life mid career trying to pivot and move into something new. So I suspect it sounds like that is kind of where you came in that you were probably doing other things and you kind of came into buying this chocolate business. So what was that like? What was that learning curve like? What skills were able to incorporate into this? How did that all go for you?

Sally Krichbaum: Well, a lot of it was learning how to work together. Brian had been a consultant and so he was gone quite a bit. And so now, all of a sudden, we're together 24 seven, we purchased it right as our kids were all have left the nest, I say was providentially provided because I was wondering what I was going to do next. And lo and behold, this chocolate company came available. And so it's been a really interesting ride. The first three years probably were getting used to each other and trying to find how we work together. But it was a challenge. It was a challenge. Now we're pretty smooth. But at the time, it was quite a challenge.

Brian Krichbaum: Let's see for me, I was an engineer, I spent a lot of time in engineering. And then I was an executive at an automotive supplier. So I was used to bossing people around. And for the most part, they wanted me happy. So they do what I asked them to do. So when we got Gilbert Chocolates together, and the first time I bossed Sally around, I realized right away that she's my wife, not my employee. And even though we're working

Sally Krichbaum: I'm your partner in this business.

Brian Krichbaum: So bossing her around didn't work very well. And it took me three years to learn that lesson. So that's the three years of getting used to it.

Sally Krichbaum: And it was like, I learned to stay out of the factory. I just don't go in there too much because Brian pretty much handles that. And like he said, he is the handyman as well, because things get broken all the time. So and I learned the role that I would fill, you know, that was different than what he was doing. And the first place where we were, we were in a smaller, a really tiny cottage when we bought it. And to begin with, we would have to kind of take turns using the office, which was quite a challenge, because that place was so small. And there's like, well, I'm not going in today, because you're going to sit in the office all day, and I won't get in there. And so, you know, there was a lot of that kind of stuff too, that we had just learned to adjust to each other.

Dan: I know you said you bought the business from a friend, but but why a chocolate business? Were you already looking to purchase a business? Aside from, I assume, a love of chocolate, you know, why the chocolate business? Why not some other business? Was it convenience? Why chocolate?

Brian Krichbaum: a lot of the answer to that is, you know, it's the door that was open. But we had looked at we had looked at buying businesses a couple times, and came close a couple times, but something or the other came up to stop it from happening. And all of those business were more engineering services, engineering products, tech businesses. And, frankly speaking, Sally didn't really care, you know, it was going to be another job that I had, and she probably wasn't going to be involved a lot. So I was consulting and I was consulting at Gilbert Chocolates. And we came up with an improvement plan. This is what you need to get the business growing again. And the owner looked at the plan and he looked at me and he said, I am altogether too old for this, I'm just going to sell the company. And so I took a candy bar home gave it to Sally and said, What about buying a chocolate company? That caught her fancy a little bit better than them buying a machine shop.

Sally Krichbaum: It is it's pretty fun sometimes. It's really fun to think up new way to experiment and taste test and saying things.

Dan: I pretty much I know the answer to this, but I am going to ask it anyway. One of the questions I'd like to ask is, what are the hidden benefits of a particular career? So being the owners of a chocolate business, what are some of the perks, the unexpected perks of being the owners of this business?

Sally Krichbaum: Well, here in Jackson, we are an icon. And so we bought a brand when we were buying our chocolate company. And so the people of Jackson, Michigan really love Gilbert Chocolates. So that does open doors that wouldn't be open to us. Otherwise, for a small company, we have about 25 employees. And so when I do it, I will do it several like the Kiwanis, they'll ask me to come and talk about Gilbert Chocolates, and they'll give me a standing ovation. That's one of the perks, I guess. So they really love it. So that's been a really nice thing.

Brian Krichbaum: always been a history fan. And now, you know, we've been here 125 years, and we're part of the history of Jackson. And we're caretakers of the chocolate business, but we're also caretakers of that history. And so it makes it fun. You know, we've spoke to the historical society several times. Lots of groups will ask us to come speak to them, give them a little lowdown on what

Sally Krichbaum: we're not ruining the company. That's the important thing.

Brian Krichbaum: The city of Jackson loves Gilbert chocolate. So yeah, they would run us out of town on a rail if we did anything to mess it up. So we're pretty conservative in the way we're approaching the business. We wanted to grow. It was a big company 50 years ago, and we think it should be a big company again, bigger company again. But we're not willing to do anything to sacrifice the quality, the customer experience of Gilbert chocolate. So we still use the same equipment that was used here 100 years ago, literally, the chocolate melter we have, I have a photograph that was taken in 1925. And that chocolate melter was in the photograph. Our marble table is the same thing. They're right there, you can still see the chip in the corner. So we have the same equipment that they were using over 100 years ago. And it makes it handmade and it makes it fresher and better. And we have added some automation on areas that we could do it without sacrificing quality. But we won't change the recipes for anything. And so all that stuff comes together to make this quite an experience. When you come to Gilbert Chocolates for the first time, most people say wow, at the first bite. I believe that.

Sally Krichbaum: We are a niche chocolate company. We're not like big like Hershey's, you know, where they have huge manufacturing factories and things. And that makes a difference. I don't know why, but it makes a difference in the taste of the chocolate. And so it's a high quality chocolate and it's a niche kind of company. So it's different than if we were mass producing.

Dan: I'm glad you mentioned the the niche-ness the niche-ness. Can I say that? Let's go with that. So there are a handful of companies in this area. So I'm located outside of Philadelphia and within maybe 90 mile radius there are a number of small like bakeries, cookie shops, and they will sell online. They'll ship you know, nationally or whatever. So my question for you, how difficult would it be for someone that they want to start their own small chocolate business, their own gourmet niche chocolate business? How difficult is it to break into this industry? Is it incredibly difficult? What's it like?

Brian Krichbaum: In some regards, we don't know, because we didn't start a chocolate company from scratch. We bought a brand that was once one of the larger chocolate companies in the United States. And our job is to revitalize that brand. So when we talk about Gilbert Chocolates, we get to talk about the chocolate we supplied to the United States Army during World War Two. We get to talk about our founder, John Gilbert's mother, developing the recipes in the late 1800s. We have this foundation there that is hard to replicate. Small chocolate companies come and go. Somebody says I want to I want to do chocolate, and they start doing it, they have, you know, moderate success. But to make it through, you know, a couple generations is the hard part. And Gilbert Chocolates has already done that. And so we got the history, we got the recipes, we got the equipment. And we got a foundation of a huge fan base here in South Central Michigan.

Sally Krichbaum: And that's what they would have to do is build a build their fan base. And it's hard selling is hard. It's really hard.

Brian Krichbaum: We put a store in our mall in a mall about 40 miles from here. And it does. It does okay. But it's not like Jackson, you know, in Jackson, people come to the mall to go to Gilbert Chocolates. In Ann Arbor, people come to the mall and they might see Gilbert Chocolates and stop in but not nearly as many of them are coming with the purpose of I've got to get some chocolates.

Dan: How have your sales changed over the past, you know, 13 years, 12 years, whatever it's been, as people become not necessarily more health conscious, but kind of in that vein, where they might not be consuming as much sugar, there's a lot of like different, you know, fad diets out there. Has that impacted you over the past decade plus? Or is it still been pretty consistent? What's that been like?

Sally Krichbaum: I would say no, it hasn't really affected us. We do sell a dairy free bar now that we actually make ourselves from the beans bar. We have a vegan, we call it a vegan chocolate, I guess, but it's just such a small portion of our sales that it is negligible. And we used to sell a lot of dark chocolate when that was the big health trend, but even that has been scaled back as no one hears about, you know, how the advantage is a dark chocolate anymore. It's not in the news.

Dan: Going back to when you first bought the business, okay, Brian, you said you had a background in engineering. Sally, what was your background? Did you have a business background or no?

Sally Krichbaum: No, not really. I was a stay at home mom, I did a lot of volunteer work. And also I did freelance writing. But the best thing I would think that being a stay at home mom does for you is that it teaches you self discipline. You either you know, you you have your day to do whatever you want, really. If you get you know, you got kids, you get them out of the house, you could go home and read a book, but you have to have self discipline to do the things that have to be done to run a good household. And that has probably been the best thing about being an owner of a business is I have that skill. And so it's not hard to keep busy and keep the things done. And so it's not really a bad thing.

Dan: That makes complete sense. So let's translate that into the business side of things. invariably, as everyone does, they're going to have different knowledge gaps in different things in whatever endeavor they're doing. So what did you do to bridge your your different knowledge gaps when it comes to business? Maybe it's, you know, with marketing or bookkeeping or whatever? How did you how did you fill in those gaps to make sure you're doing everything to the best that you could and then continue to evolve?

Brian Krichbaum: we've talked about this a lot. You know, I am an engineer, I was an operations expert. I know how things work. I know how production facilities work. And we've made huge gains in the factory. Just moving the factory, that in itself was a huge productivity gain. So that engineering stuff, even the maintenance of this old equipment stuff, this is not hard. You figure out what you want to do, and you do it. And if it doesn't work exactly right, then you make a tweak and you get it going. So we've done a lot of that. And that stuff's, frankly, easy for me. So, like most people, that's the stuff I like to do. There's other stuff that's not really hard, but I don't like to do, which I spend more time doing like, you know, I'm the accounts payable clerk. I write the checks to the customer to the suppliers. We split up the payroll. So I do part of the payroll and Sally does part of the payroll. But, making sure the employees get paid, they don't like it very well when they don't get paid. They won't be employees. I mean, they're our employees are friends, but they're friends with the caveat, you pay us we'll be friends, you don't pay us we'll be gone. So there's that. There's things that dealing

Sally Krichbaum: with the government.

Brian Krichbaum: Oh, yes. Government relations.

Sally Krichbaum: That's a big deal.

Brian Krichbaum: I think almost any small business person would say the same thing. The biggest fear we have every morning is what is the government going to do to us today. And keep it on top of that is a big deal. A couple years ago, we switched over to a payroll service, and they do most of that government interface with that, which is worth every penny, every single penny, because that's that stuff's just hard. And even the people at the government can't really help help you walk through it. They don't know how to do it either.

Sally Krichbaum: I would say that probably for me, the difference, one of my skills was that I was used to working with kids and the caliber of the employee that we have to find are a lot more on that scale than they are the high class professional. And so there was a lot of my had a lot more patience with our staff. I had a lot more understanding with our staff, and with our retail staff in particular, not so much the factory, because they've those ladies have been there forever. And they were constantly bossing us around telling me what I was doing wrong. But you know, that sort of thing. So I do most of the hiring for the stores and things like that, because I just that's my job.

Brian Krichbaum: The factory staff here is experienced, Four out of the five have been here longer than we have 15 years, 20 years, 22 years. And they don't need any supervision, they don't even need direction, sometimes they need information, so they can make the decisions. But you know, they're good at it. They've been doing it a long time. The retail side is a different business, really. We're a manufacturer and we're a retailer. And the retail side, it's harder to keep employees, people come and go. And we want things done a certain way. We're a high end store, we're not a discount store, we know we're high end. And we expect our employees to dress like they're working in a high end retail store. And some of them, some people don't want to, you know, they want to wear blue jeans to work. Well, you can, but not here. So, there's that part of it that's, you know, and I did, I spent my career working with, you know, engineers, you know, and everyone, you know, college graduates, and it's not like that anymore. But, you know, the people, the people that work for us are great people. And we're glad to have them. And we do call them our friends.

Dan: Going back, you talked about the recipes for the chocolate and you said you're using the same recipes from before, however long before is. So, it sounds like you're not inventing new recipes, you're not like, so my mind immediately jumped to, I spoke to a food scientist, Dr. Maya Warren. And we talked about food science and ice cream and all that good stuff. Again, sweet tooth, you know, do you do employ anyone like that to create new recipes for you? Or no, you're strictly sticking with what's tried and true?

Brian Krichbaum: We don't have a food scientist. We're really not big enough. We have developed new chocolates over the years. And we've also, I would say resurrected some, when we bought the company, about 40% of the chocolates were purchased from other chocolate companies, which drove me bonkers. It's like I've got employees who went to work more and I've got capacity in the factory and we already know how to do chocolates. And we can do it for less than we can buy it. Why are we buying chocolates? So, we figured out how to do peanut butter cups. We found John Gilbert's original chocolate cherry cordial recipes. We figured out how to make sea foam and all these things and a dozen more. We just brought in house and started doing them ourselves. And we have better control and they're fresher. And the customers like them better. And our employees get to work more.

Sally Krichbaum: So, But we do make and we do follow trends. For example, the Dubai chocolate. Have you heard of the Dubai chocolates? I have not, but go on. Well, we call them chocolates with a Mediterranean flair. But they have pistachio nuts and they've got phyllo dough in them and they're unique, but they were customers who were coming to us and they were asking mostly young people coming and saying, "Do you have Dubai chocolates?" So, we had to explore it and, "Yeah, now we have Dubai chocolates and if you go to a chocolate shop, you'll probably find some." So, we make them too. So, that's one way we have tried to keep up with some trends that are going on because yes, we do pay attention to those as well as the old.

Dan: When you start to do that, so for that, the peanut butter cups, the cordials, who starts that? Sally, is that you? Brian, is that you? Is it someone just one of your senior people in the factory?

Sally Krichbaum: It depends.

Brian Krichbaum: So, the cordials was me, the cherries.

Sally Krichbaum: He found this machine up in the attic and brought it down and we all wondered what it was for. So, we figured out what it was for.

Brian Krichbaum: It's pretty much exactly the way it happened. The peanut butter cups, our daughter who was in like a junior or senior in college when we bought the company said, "These peanut butter cups don't measure up to the standards of the rest of the chocolates. You got to figure out how to make your own." And it took us about six months, we did. So, she instigated that for us.

Sally Krichbaum: I'll take credit for the toffee creams.

Brian Krichbaum: And you know, some of it's come from the customers, you know, customers want a particular thing and we tried to keep them happy. So, and if it makes sense, we'll keep it around.

Sally Krichbaum: one of the ways we have grown is that we have this contract with the largest chocolate club in the country. And they have pushed us to find ways to add a little extra or change the change of one of the chocolates in the box, you know, that sort of thing. And so, we've had a little bit of, you know, encouragement from the outside too.

Dan: That sounds so good. My mouth is just watering. I'm loving all this.

Sally Krichbaum: It is good. You should work here. It's really hard to not just a piece here and piece there, you know, and next thing you know, you've had a quarter pound of chocolate.

Brian Krichbaum: You're kind of fortunate, you know, Philadelphia is one of the chocolate hotspots in the United States. It is. A lot of chocolates, you know, bean to chocolate is done right there in the Philadelphia area.

Dan: Yeah, that and the soft pretzels, which I absolutely love. Unfortunately, I am running a little short on time, but one thing I like to do whenever I'm speaking with someone, I like to give them the opportunity to talk about a project they're working on, a cause they believe in, more about their business. So if there's something specific you'd like to discuss, the floor is yours.

Brian Krichbaum: We are big supporters of the history people here in Jackson. So we support the historical society. There's a Civil War muster each summer. We help sponsor that. And, you know, those are the kinds of things we like to do. It fits in with the business, we're a historical business. And people people like it. Lots of people are history buffs. It's kind of cool. Here in Jackson, the granddaughter- in-law-of our founder is still alive. And who's here in Jackson, she and her husband actually lived with John Gilbert for four or five years when they first got married. And so she loves to talk about Gilbert Chocolate. She loves to talk about her grandfather-in-law. And, and she's kind of a fixture here in town. Everyone knows her. And so it's cool to talk about history. But we went to a historical society meeting. And she was there and it's like, Oh, I got to get it exactly right today. Because we have a fact checker here in the audience. So yeah, so it's fun. I mean, if you like history, if you like chocolates, you like business, there's not a better job. It's the best job I've had in my career.

Dan: I'll make sure I get those links from you, I'll put them in the show notes. They'll be on the website. They'll be in the description. They'll be all over the place where people are trying to find that information. They can easily find it. Brian and Sally, it's been absolutely awesome having you on Time We Discus and we learned what it's like being gourmet chocolatiers.

Brian/Sally Krichbaum: Thank you for having us.