Time We Discuss: Writing and Marketing Science Fiction (Aaron Ryan)

Transcription

(Music)

Dan: How are you selling your books? on Amazon, were you number one in a category? What are you doing to promote? How could your advice help other people that are trying to write?

Aaron Ryan: Yeah,

Dan: Today on Time We Discuss, I want to welcome back Aaron Ryan. And it's time to discuss what it's like being a science fiction author. Aaron, thank you for joining me today.

Aaron Ryan: My pleasure. Thanks for having me back. I'm so surprised. I mean, like, you're willing to have me back is just... It's a whole new thing.

Dan: Well, I gotta admit, I haven't had a whole lot of people here lately. So...

Aaron Ryan: It's just so... It's crickets, right? You need some... You need a lively farmyard animal noise.

Dan: And that's where you come in.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah.

Dan: So, Aaron, the last time you were here, we talked about a lot of the things I've talked about with other guests. You know, we talked about your typical day. We talked about creativity and inspiration. We talked about Aliens, plural, James Cameron. We talked about Clash of the Titans, Medusa and Gorgon. We talked about the Dissonance series and the opportunity for screen play. We talked about your education and the self-publishing process. That's all old news. If people want to check that out again, I'll put a link up at the top here. It would be in the description. They can easily check out that video. This time, this time, I want to talk about milestones. I want to talk about things on your timeline. No dates, no years. Don't need that. But different key moments of you as an author, starting out like when you're a professional, semi-professional, kind of like working right up to now. What are some of those key milestones for you as an author?

Aaron Ryan: I don't remember. I'm kidding.

Dan: And scene.

Aaron Ryan: Oh my gosh. Wow. So let's see. So I think the very first one was being doled out this, you know, second grade writing assignment. So it was 1981. That'll tell you right away how old I am. Just move right past that. There's gray right here just as proof, but whatever. But I think that was like, wow, I get to write a story. It was so cool. And I totally stole from the novelization for E.T. by Alan Dean Foster, I believe. I totally stole some things from his novelization and put them in my... So copyright infringement was already at work from a young age. That was the very first thing that I'd ever written, other than maybe a Valentine's Day love letter to my mom. We don't need to talk about that. And then, boy, when I read Lord of the Rings, that, that blew my mind in terms of just the sheer audacity that you could tackle your authorship with and how big, I mean, like behemoth, your works could become. So there was that. And then you really fast forward because I went like this and then like that and you know, like this everywhere in life with a lot of different creative pursuits, came back to authoring. And wrote an autobiography in 19... No, 2001. I don't know what I was thinking because I was too young and there was nothing in there of substance. And who cares? I mean, an autobiography about me, you know, went right in the trash. And I sold two copies. One was to me and the other was to my mom. And then, but we don't need to talk about that again. I became a voiceover artist in 1993, but really started pursuing it full time in the mid 2010s. And I wrote ultimately six voiceover books. The very first one of those was like, wow, here I am publishing a book again. And this, it was such a great process because now it was official. It was in Kindle Direct Publishing. It was a full on paperback and a Kindle version and like, wow, I really did it. You know, it was amazingly, it was a watershed moment. And then, and then publishing, you know, the sixth book of those was just crazy cool. But I took a step back by which I mean, I took an absolutely complete exodus from the toxic online voiceover community, decided to pursue authoring full time with every fiber of my being and the fire of a thousand suns in 2023. And I worked on and published my first book on January 1st, 2024, Dissonance Volume 1: Reality. And that was the beginning of this whole new fiction, odyssey of writing books, publishing them and more books and even more books. And so that's kind of like where I am now. And I absolutely love it. I love being a storyteller.

Dan: You know, Aaron, it's interesting. I remember seeing on social media like you are seriously cranking out books. And I remember I spoke with Alison McBain. She was working on this project called Author vs. AI. And it kind of reminded me of that where I think she was doing like each week she was trying to author a different book. And the memories of it are a little foggy because it has been probably about a year at this point since I spoke to Alison. But I don't know if it was like 100 words or not. No, it wouldn't be 100 words, 100 pages, 100 words would be super easy except for I couldn't do it. But almost reminds me of that. Like you were just cracking out these books like so fast. How do you how do you find the where do you get all the creativity from? But also, like, how do you keep from getting burnt out with doing all that writing?

Aaron Ryan: It's such a good question. And I mean, I'm going to say as a voiceover artist, I do I would crank out between 200 and 250 auditions per week. That's about 50 a day. You know, 40 to 50 a day. I mean, that's the rare time where my math works. No one said there'd be math. But I would always be asked that question. How do you find the time? I don't find the time, I make the time. And if you really are driven for something and you have passion for it, you're going to make the time. So as a voiceover artist, my industry is eroding under the weight of A.I. That was the same in 2024 when we talked and it's become even more so. Thank God I'm the voice of United Healthcare because that has really, really paid some bucks and saved our bacon. But it continues to erode. So with that comes less jobs, comes less auditions. With that comes more time to write. But I'm also fueled by a passion and an urgency because of this eroding A.I., this eroding voiceover career due to A.I. I'm really fueled by an urgency and a passion to write. So you take that into context when you consider the Dissonance saga. It was supposed to be just a trilogy, but I could not stop. It was a problem. It was an addiction. There was more to write. The story just kept growing and growing and growing until finally it became a full on. I have to hold it in front of me. So the show I have a glorious box set of all six in one. This is all six novels in one in a box set. And I loved having this produced. This is like 1800 pages cumulatively in paperbacks. It just grew and grew and grew. So I really made the time. I was so compelled to write. And every spare waking minute I had where I was not with the kids or with my wife or with walking the dog or exercising or, you know, doing voiceovers or work, I was writing. And so that gave birth to the six books of Dissonance. It then gave birth to the three books of, hold this here, of The End, which is also a new box set, which I had produced as well. Three books in one. I love these box sets. Can you tell? I can. Forecast and the Phoenix Experiment and The Slide and my kids books. I just, I have to create and I found what I am supposed to do. When that happens, look out. It's like Juggernaut from the X-Men.

Dan: So you're breaking through walls too, I guess. Metaphorical and physical.

Aaron Ryan: I was just going to say, walls of no writing, nis-ment-itude. That's the walls I'm breaking through.

Dan: Oddly enough, when I'm not doing this, I'm doing other creative things. I always encounter, I don't always encounter this. It isn't uncommon for me to encounter this where I have like three hours where the house is going to be empty. No one's gonna be here. I can record or something like that. And I have zero inspiration. Or I'm getting ready to write and I get nothing until like 10 minutes before everyone comes home. And then I have all the creative juices are there. So my question for you, with doing all of this writing, how do you keep that creativity going? How do you manage to keep that from drying up?

Aaron Ryan: You know, ultimately, Writers' Block, I can't stand when people say that Writers' Block is just this invented phenomenon because it absolutely is true. Do I suffer from it? No, not really. I mean, I don't, I think that I have, but it's not something that strikes frequently with me or for kind of any kind of length of time. I will say that with the Talisman series, which is my brand new series I'm working on, it's been hard for me to kind of dive into this story. Part of that is I'm in publishing marketing mode with the Phoenix Experiment. And I'm in reading mode with the Dissonance saga because I'm supposed to be because of the screenplay and the screenwriters and they may want me to, I need to know my story better than they do if it gets picked up. So I wasn't sure where to go. I knew a general idea of what I wanted to do. But when I locked onto the primary, the protagonist in the story, hailing from my Dissonance saga, he's now migrated to be the protagonist of this, instantly I was electrifyingly excited. So sometimes it takes a little bit of just kind of backing off and kind of back of the mind thinking of what could be with this. And then, you know how it is when you're like, what was I trying to think of? Oh man, I just had a thought and I can't remember. You're opening the fridge and you're staring and you're going, what did I want? I don't remember. When you close the fridge and you walk away, ah, that's what I wanted. Milk, you know, you remember when you put it away. And so usually I'll have to kind of walk away from a situation and just do something else entirely. And then whatever amygdala is in there or something is in there and decides to go, oh, Aaron, here's what you wanted, you know, tap, tap. Back off and then you remember and then you get inspiration and it hits, but it doesn't happen all the time. It's kind of a, I'm a crap shoot in an anomaly.

Dan: You have kids, we covered that last time. They're still of school age, I assume. So I'm assuming that you're probably at, I'm assuming you're writing at home, but I don't want to assume that. You're writing in your author space, wherever that is. And I'm assuming it's for an extended period of time. It might be six hours a day. It might be eight hours a day. It might be two hours. I don't know. But walk us through that. What is that typically like? Are you writing for like an hour? Then you take a break to do reading for the Dissonance series, for instance. What is that typically like?

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, that's a great question. Well, what you described earlier is, you got the house to yourself and no one's around and you're totally prepared to be all creative and then you can't. You're like, oh, you're just stuck. And then you get inspiration that strikes when everybody's home and you have no quiet or peace anymore. And it's just, I get that. When it strikes, though, we talked about Juggernaut earlier. I've got to go with that flow and I've got to keep writing, even if it's beyond the 5 p.m. cutoff work time for me. And I'll just sit here and go, "Honey, I know it's 11:30 and the kids are already asleep, but I'll be in eventually." No, I don't go that long, but I do follow that. And as a voiceover artist and a writer, I have to balance those two storytelling careers. So when I'm not in there and I'm not writing, sorry, I'm not recording or in a directed session with a client, whatever, I'm right back here and I'm writing. And I just have to kind of bounce on the waves. I'm a ship on the waves, going into the shore, out to the sea, into the shore, out to the sea. And you just have to ride that wave, I guess, and do what you can when you can. But boy, when the inspiration strikes, look out, because I will just abandon my voiceover stuff, even if there's some really mortgage paying auditions sitting there waiting for me. Sorry, I've got to do this right now because I don't know how long this will last.

Dan: One thing I do wanna talk about as well, we talked about this a little bit the last time I believe, I wanna talk about how you're doing your promoting, what kinds of things you're doing for the self promotion, how are you selling your books? I noticed, I think it was on Amazon, were you like the number one in a category? Or what are you doing to promote? How could your advice help other people that are trying to write?

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, just telling people I'll give them $1,000 if they buy my book, I mean, it seems to be working. No, I'm very broke right now. I run promotions, I do a lot, I do a lot of creative marketing, but what you do, commencing with the release, or I guess, what's the word I'm looking for? It's supposed to be happening simultaneously to the release of your book. When you publish it, you wanna run promotions, specific to that category, that genre, and there's a lot of different reputable ones and some unreputable ones that you can choose from. So I ran a bunch of promotions, and I got 113 sales of the Phoenix Experiment in a single day, and then like 23 the next day of the Phoenix Experiment. So when that happens, you're gonna reach number one. So that's just eBooks, by the way. They have it listed in three different categories, the Phoenix Experiment, one is like a teen, apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic eBooks, and that is the one that I reached bestseller in. You've gotta grab the screenshot when it happens, for like proof. There's two other categories. It is a survival story as well, and so, gosh, I can't remember her name. Oh, Suzanne Collins, I know, who's that? Hunger Games, she's at the top of the survival book genre. And so I'm not gonna rank there. I'm gonna try to get close, but I'm gonna fail miserably. So the other categories, you just hope and see where you'll rank, but I'm still like the number one release in one of those categories, not bestseller anymore. I was already bumped, that's okay. You get up there and you go down and then maybe you're on some more promotions, you come back up and whatever. I just want to be a bestseller at least once for every book, and that's happened frequently. So very happy. But man, promotions are one thing when you do online. It's the offline stuff, like wearing these to the grocery store. Oh, are you an author? Vinyl lettering on the back window of my van that says support a local bestselling author, pictures of my books on the doors of the van, and the website everywhere, doing vendor markets and going out and actually selling the books in person with people. Such, I mean, that's where you make 100% of the money on the books and you get to meet your readers. It's just awesome. Business cards, flyers, doing podcasts like this, and just really putting yourself out there as much as you possibly can. I try to do everything I possibly can. And that is a, I like to think of myself as a businessman who just happens to write books. A businessman who just happens to do voiceovers. When you put your identity as a business person first, you have somewhere to put your craft in order to take it places. And that's really important. And I think what a lot of hobbyists miss.

Dan: It's interesting. So many people have said that, that concept of a business first and the other thing is secondary. Whether you are a sommelier or a musician or an author, or an artist, a visual artist. So many people have said it's that business part first and the other stuff is secondary is really, having that recognition is really what will catapult you forward.

Aaron Ryan: Absolutely. It's just a mentality. It's a mindset difference. And I think one of the differentiators between a businessman and a hobbyist is they're willing to look at things like, I had to spend money on these promotions in order to get my book in front of all these readers. Is that an expense or is it an investment? So it is not an expense. An expense is like, oh, okay, if I have to. An investment is no, I need this. This is critical for my career and my bragging rights. It's critical for reputation. And to say that this has been a bestseller. Reader's Favorite, Literary Titans you have to keep yourself out there as creatively and as often as you can.

Dan: Think about the different things that you do to market yourself and to market your books. Which investment do you think has paid back the most in dividends?

Aaron Ryan: I want to say that it's probably been the vendor markets. Now granted, some of those vendor markets have a somewhat high bar of entry. It's $100 to enter. It's $400 to enter, whatever. But, and you price your book strategically, but especially for the ones that cost more and are multi days, you're gonna make that money back if you've got a good book, if you're enthusiastic. Don't be a marketer. I love this advice that I was given by an author. I can't remember who it was and I feel terrible about that. But she said, "If you want to get better at marketing, stop marketing." (Imitates Buzzer) I was like, she's like, "Instead, be an enthusiast." And boy did that resonate with me.

Dan: Invariably I see different people posting on social media about like, they got their books in this bookstore. They have a signing at that bookstore. Talk to me about that. Have you had the opportunity to do book signings at like larger scale, but like chains like a Barnes and Noble instance? Have you had that experience? What's that like? Is it easy to get into, get into how can people do that? And is it worth

Aaron Ryan: Yeah. It's, I mean, it's not really the bee's knees. I've done Barnes and Noble a few times and ultimately you're going to get paid this much for the books they buy because they get them at cost. And it's really cool bragging rights to say I'm in Barnes and Noble today. You know, I mean that, but you're not on that front table. Your books aren't on that front table. And that's where you want to get. So it is very cool to get into Barnes and Noble and do a signing, but it's, you know, you're going to get this much. And I did, I did three, I think close to me. And then I did one way up north near Seattle and like hardly anybody bought near Seattle. I sold it, you know, more than a few down here, which was great, but I'd rather do a vendor market. They're just far more profitable.

Dan: Big question. Last time we spoke, we talked about Dissonance. At the time It was a trilogy by the time the interview dropped, it was a quadrilogy. And now it's a hexology. But at the time you were talking about a possible pitch as a screenplay to different streaming networks. So I would love an update on that.

Aaron Ryan: I'm so stoked. It's every indie author or every author's dream, you know, to get their, their book on screen. So yes. So I wrote volume one Reality. It's been adapted for the screen. It's been pitched to a whole bunch of different streaming networks. No one has said no yet, except for Skydance and Paramount because they just merged. And so, you know, they're shelving everything right now. It's not like your screenplay sucks. No way. It's basically that they are, they're shelving everything because they're trying to figure themselves out, you know, like all that stuff. So I wasn't crushed. They may actually look at it again. You know, we may pitch them when the, when the dust is set a little bit, but the cool thing is that none of those studios have, have declined, except for them. And we have usually it's been one meeting with all of them. We have a fourth meeting coming up with a studio. I'm just going to give you the first letter because it's kind of an NDA thing. It starts with L and they are a major production studio that have done major, huge, epic films. Epic with a capital "eh". And like Dissonance is an alien invasion on a global epic scale. I want this studio. I mean, I would, it would just, I would, yeah, I'd be an 11 year old giddy, 11 year old girl. If they, if this particular L studio adapted my book or took the screenplay and optioned it or bought it, Oh, I'd be on cloud nine. Cause that's who I, I totally want to produce it. We did go the actor route as well. Cause you go to the production studio route and you go an actor route or an actors agents route. And I actually got a no for the character of Joe Bassett in volume one Reality from both John Hamm and Eric Bana. I mean, like, I'll take those "nos". Thank you very much. So it's totally fine that they said no, because they're John Hamm and Eric Bana. Um, they've heard of Dissonance now, but man, I would love this, this studio to pick it up. And it would mean a sea change of a lot of very cool things happening in my author career. and it'd just be, it'd be incredible. So knock it on wood, man. Cross my fingers.

Dan: Last time I had You on the show. Well, I threw that surprise question at the end, which was a really, really fun one. Anyone that's watching this, I definitely recommend going back to, whatever episode it was. I'll put a, I'll put a link at the top. I'll put a link somewhere.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah. 3,927. I think was the episode. That was the one.

Dan: That was the one really good story at the end at a great question. I said before we started recording, I hadn't been doing those in a while. I wasn't going to do it and that fast. I changed my mind. So I do have a fun surprise question for you and it's right in line with you as an author. So Aaron question for you has almost nothing to do with what you do for a living. What is the worst alien invasion survival skill that you have?

Aaron Ryan: The worst, the worst, not the best, the worst. Oh my gosh.

Dan: Well, something that, some skill that you have (you can't say writing). Some skill that you have that if there is an alien invasion, this skill is going to be far, far from helpful.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah. So I mean, I'm going to just be real honest and transparent because I believe in that. So I am on the, the semi-glutide diet currently, which has seen me lose 40 pounds since January, February rather. And what that does is it essentially liquefies all of the food that you've eaten and destroys them, but it also tends to produce a by-product, a gaseous by-product, shall we say. And so my wife can attest to this as can my children. So if you've got aliens that are very sensitive hearing, i.e. the Gorgons in Dissonance or the ones in A Quiet Place, I would not survive in a quiet place because, you know, I can be unquiet, shall we say. So that is my skill that would be far from helpful. I think right now, Hey, this is, you're supposed to be honest and you're supposed to be candid and transparent. So I'm doggonit, that's my honest answer.

Dan: I absolutely love that. I absolutely love it. Entertaining, just as entertaining as last time. I absolutely love it Aaron, just like last time, and I think I like to do whatever I'm talking to someone, I like to give them the opportunity to talk about a project they're working on, a cause they believe in, more about your books, whatever you'd like to talk about. The floor is yours.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah, thank you. Well, so I'm, I'm working on my, 36th, 37th and 38th book. Uh, it's called the Talisman series and I was kind of stuck for a while. I wasn't sure where to go with it. I had a general idea, but ultimately my, oh, gosh, I got fired up because I realized there's a character from my Dissonance saga that would be perfect to mine for this new series. So I was this much excited generally about it. Then when I decided to incorporate this secret, I'm not going to say secret character. I don't want to spoil it. I mean, the excitement level just seriously ramped up. Now, Pastor Rosie in the Dissonance series has migrated to virtually all my other books. She's my dented foil. Like John Grisham likes to put dented foils or Tom Clancy. I think it's John Grisham in all of his movies. He likes to put dented foils. It's just that character that keeps appearing. So mine is Pastor Rosie Campion on and she's made it into like virtually every book, which I think is cool. She'll be in this one kind of after a fashion, but this protagonist is not her and it's going to be really exciting. So I'm working on it slowly, but surely. And I've been marketing the Phoenix Experiment with just, which just sold 113 copies two days ago. And like 23 yesterday, it's been wonderful to see that do so well. So writing, writing, writing, man, keep on writing. Isn't that what Dory saying, you know, writing, writing, writing, you know

Dan: That's, that's exactly it. You think it'd be swimming, but it's not. It's writing.

Aaron Ryan: Just keep writing. Just keep writing. Yeah. That's what it was.

Dan: I'm picturing Dory like as a teacher, like a teaching a school of fish.

Aaron Ryan: Yes, but she's sitting in a typewriter.

Dan: Aaron. I'll make sure I get links to all the good stuff for you, for your books. I'll put it all over the website. They'll be in the description. It'll be everywhere. So when people are trying to find you, they can easily find you.

Aaron Ryan: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much. Always a pleasure to talk with you, man. I appreciate it. Always a pleasure to "discuss" with you. I had to incorporate your name in there.

Dan: Oh, I love that. Absolutely love that. Thank you again for being on Time. We Discuss and we learned what it's like being a science fiction author.

Aaron Ryan: Always a pleasure being with you. Thanks so much for the time.