Time We Discuss: Owning an Independent Publishing Company (Susie Schaefer)

Transcription

(Music)

Susie Schaefer: I think the first thing is that you have to understand how the industry works. That's one of the main things. And you know, if there was somebody that listens to your podcast and says, "Hey, I wanna do what she does."

Dan: Today on Time We Discuss, I wanna welcome Susie Schaefer and it's time to discuss what it's like owning an indie publishing company. Susie, thank you for joining me today.

Susie Hey Dan, thanks for having me on the show.

Dan: Absolutely, this is really cool. So I've spoken with a number of authors. Last season, season one, I spoke with like 20 different authors. And during that time, I also spoke with a handful of people that had their own publishing companies. So it'd be kind of nice to revisit this a little bit. Also, I love the pineapple part of the logo. I love pineapples. I'm one of those freaks that loves pineapple on my pizza. So I definitely appreciate that. But let's talk about your company. Let's start at the beginning. Let's talk about the why. Why did you create your publishing company?

Susie I've always been an avid reader. I was, as a young child, I can remember my mom putting me down for nap time. And instead of me just laying there and listening to her read the story, I would want to see the words, not the pictures, but the words. And so it started very, very young for me. And I spent 30 years in corporate America. I worked in human resources. I also had a stint in commercial television and radio. So I have a media background. And after I went through a divorce, I had an opportunity to learn the publishing industry from a good friend of mine. And that's what I did is I just kind of dove right in. And then when I moved back to California, I had the thought, well, why don't I just do my own company? And my best friend was the one who actually said to you, just go out and do your own thing. And so that's how it became that I was actually the owner and entrepreneur of my own publishing company. It was kind of one of those things where I think I just needed permission to do it.

Dan: I generally don't research anyone before I call them or anything like that. I like it to be very spontaneous. So I have no idea how old is your company?

Susie My company was born in 2019.

Dan: Right before COVID, lovely.

Susie Right before COVID. So yeah, so I launched the business. A year later we were in COVID. It actually was weirdly the thing that I needed because we were all locked down. And so people were finding me online and we were obviously doing consultations by Zoom. And so it just made sense that those people that were locked down, they were spending a lot of time with introspection and doing writing, journaling, those types of things. And so people were finding me and yeah, it just kind of came together. And I think there's been a lot of blessings along the way.

Dan: There's so many people out there that they start their own business or they're freelancing or they have a side hustle going. And one of the problems that people encounter is that everything seems so saturated. You try to make a voice for yourself on social media. It's hard cutting through the noise. Podcasters, there's like, I forgot what the number is, like, I don't know, 10 million, millions of them. Or you have even just local businesses. You're competing with all these people. And you say people are just finding you online. What were you doing? Were you doing anything special to help people find you online?

Susie I used a conversation starter. And that was the pineapple. Because the pineapple as my logo is a nod to my years in the hospitality industry and actually where my education is. And so by using the pineapple, I would end all my social media posts with the pineapple. And people would say, what's with the pineapple? And I said, well, that's my logo. And they would ask more questions. Well, what do you do? And I said, well, I own a publishing company. And if you look really closely at that logo, the top of the pineapple looks like pages in a book. And the little squares inside the body of the pineapple are actually little tiny books that represent me helping people get their books out into the world.

Dan: That is really, really cool. So when it comes to design, I am not a designer by any stretch. So whenever I see people that put so much thought and detail into design, I just think that is mind blowing. And as soon as you said that about the, the leafs being books, it was like, oh yeah, obviously. You know, and then the books on the inside, obviously, as well, really, really cool. Okay, so you talked about going from human resources to publishing. So when I talk to different people, I like to look at two ends of the spectrum. I like to talk about people that are just starting out in their professional career. And then those that maybe are transitioning later in life. And it sounds like that's kind of what you did. So let's look at that. What kind of transferable skills were most helpful moving from HR into a completely different industry?

Susie I find that all of the jobs that I've had, and if you saw my resume, you would think, okay, this person has no focus because I've had a lot of different jobs and a lot of different industries. But in human resources in particular, it really helped me develop relationships with the vendors and the professionals that I work alongside. In addition, having a variety of jobs and careers within my lifetime, it allows me to be not necessarily an expert in many fields, but know a little bit about something in so many different industries so that I can relate that to working with an author when we're publishing their book. But also, having a background in media was also very helpful. Having a background in hospitality is very helpful because it's all about service. And so I do pride myself on giving my clients really white glove service. They always get me, not the rest of my team. They get me every time.

Dan: We talked a little bit about when you were super young, your fascination with words and books, okay? So on one hand, I get the answer to this question even before I ask it, but I'm still gonna ask it. In this day and age, with everything being electronic, why publishing? Why did you decide this is the thing that is gonna be my next, no pun intended, chapter?

Susie Yeah, I love that. I love the pun, by the way. I'm a big fan of puns. You know, it's very interesting because I fell into it. I didn't even, it wasn't a plan. It wasn't what I went to school for. It just kind of happened. And it happened at the right moment. And a lot of times that's really the key is that when opportunities are presented to you, that you listen to your intuition and you say, "Yeah, I have an interest in doing this." So yeah, the words on the page are important. And of course, I can remember a few years back, I think probably like 15 years ago or so, when audio, or not audio, eBooks came out. And everybody was freaking out thinking that's going to be the end of traditional bookstores and libraries because everything will be online. But in fact, it's had the exact opposite effect that more and more people with the advent of independent publishing, more and more people are now able to share their stories with the world. And that is what's really important. I have a significant client base that are veterans. And one of the things that I love working about with veterans is that when they're gone, their stories are going to be gone with them. So it's important that we capture those now for future generations. And I think that there's almost an obligation that I feel to work with people to share those stories because even if it's not a veteran, say it's a grandparent who lived during World War II, it's important for those people's stories to be shared because you never know what their grandchildren, great-grandchildren, great-great-grandchildren are going to want to learn about that person in their family.

Dan:So let's talk about the business itself, your role. What is a typical day like for you? If there is a typical day.

Susie Well, a no day is really typical, but I do. As we were talking even before we got started on the podcast here, the systems and structures are very important for having foundation in a very creative industry. Otherwise we're all over the place, right? So a typical day for me usually means going through my calendar, I usually have a variety of consultations and client calls. And then when I'm done with those calls, then the work actually begins because I'm in the background. My role is really one of a project manager for authors to publish independently so that they keep all their rights and royalties, but that they have the right guidance in order to do it the right way. Because I've seen a lot of people that try and bootstrap it or do it on their own and they end up usually falling in my inbox saying, I need help. And if we can do it right the first time, it's really gonna create that foundational piece for them so that they can be successful with their book.

Dan: Let's elaborate on that a little bit. What are some of those common pitfalls that you're seeing from people where they're in trouble and they need help and they come to you?

Susie I see people take a manuscript that's written in a Word document, they slap it up on Amazon and do a cover that's created with the automatic cover creator and it just looks bad. And those are the kinds of books that can't get into bookstores and libraries. I also, people that publish only on Amazon or KDP, which is Kindle Direct Publishing, which is Amazon's print-on-demand sector and thinking that they're gonna be able to get into a bookstore when really book buyers don't buy from Amazon, book buyers buy from Ingram Spark, which is another platform and their partners. So understanding the ins and outs of how the industry works and those types of pitfalls, like just throwing your Word manuscript onto KDP is not the best way to go. So yeah, there's a number of them. There's tons and tons of red flags and things that people do that make mistakes. And my job really is to coach them through that and make sure that they have the best possible book.

Dan: Now, I've realize that everyone is going to be different. Everyone's process is going to be different. Everyone's skillset is going to be different. But generally speaking, when someone is working with you, how long are they typically working with you? Is it weeks, months, years? I'm sure they probably come back after they've done one successful book. What is that like for you?

Susie It's a wide range, but generally speaking, most people will work with me anywhere from four to six months for a book that is fully edited. Assuming that they've done the editing process and we're ready to go right into production. If not, then they might be working with an editor for a few months before that. So maybe their project will be nine months. For people that are working with a ghostwriter, they're probably looking at closer to a year. I do have some clients. For example, I just finished a book number 15 with one of my authors. She had a series of children's books and we've been working together for I think three years now. So yeah, it can run the gamut, but I would say on average four to six months.

Dan: Because you're an indie publishing company, do you publish their books or how does that all tie in?

Susie My company does not operate as what we call a hybrid publisher. So I don't publish under my imprint. I have a couple very specific projects that we have done that for a variety of reasons. But generally speaking, when I'm working with an author, we will actually create an imprint for them. So they manage that and own that, that protects their rights and royalties, as well as purchasing the ISBNs, which is the little numbers on the book, the ISBNs underneath their imprint, so that it creates that, again, foundational piece for them to do more books versus be beholden to me as a publisher.

Dan: Let's talk about your clients a little bit, okay? So obviously with any business, getting clients is the hardest part. So what are some of your secrets? What are your best places to go fishing to try to get new clients? Or is that at this point, it's all word of mouth. People are just knocking on your door. What is that like for you?

Susie It's the latter. I really, I don't do any advertising. Yes, I do post on social media. I have a newsletter, obviously I have the podcast. So that's how people will find me. But I would say the greatest portion of my business comes from referrals, whether they're publishing partners, like designers or editors, or even past clients. And I do have several repeat clients as well. So yeah, I'm generally never lacking for business. That is what's amazing about this. And so, the sales process for me is very simple. People will click on the button and schedule a consultation. We'll spend 30 minutes on a Zoom call and figure out where are you now and where do you wanna go? And what are the steps that we need to take to get you there?

Dan: You talk about advertising a little bit. You talked about social media a little bit. Which form of, I'm just gonna loop out all under advertising. Which form of advertising from your experience, doing what you do, has paid back in dividends? Which was the most beneficial for you to really sink your time into that, just really paid you back.

Susie My presence on LinkedIn, out of everything. Facebook generally is awareness, but I generally don't get clients from Facebook or Instagram. I do get clients from LinkedIn. People find me there and they contact me. And of course too, because I do a lot of nonfiction work, typically my authors are also business people and people that are on LinkedIn as well too. So we have that cross pollination of posts and things like that. So that's really where a lot of my business comes from.

Dan: Let's talk about the least favorite part of your day or the task that you just makes you cringe, if you will. What would that be?

Susie I don't think I have one, which sounds so ridiculous I do have one of those jobs that I wake up every day and love what I do. And so it doesn't feel like work. I would say the task that I don't like to do, and in fact, I have people to do this, is bookkeeping. I don't enjoy doing that. So I have people to do that. I basically, if there's a task that I don't enjoy, I will hire that out. But the publishing stuff is all stuff that I love doing. So I do all that on my own. I do have people in the background that help me, but yeah, it's all fun. I mean, even as nerdy as this sounds, but researching BISEC codes, which are the book industry main categories for a book, I find that weirdly fun to do.

Dan: It's like me with doing the dishes. I actually kind of enjoy it. It gives me a chance to just kind of like let my brain go and just kind of do my thing and that's good. Exactly. You had experience in media, in human resources, and a variety of other things. What did you do to bridge the gaps with knowledge when it comes to the business side of things? Did you go back to school? Did you learn online, listen to podcasts, a business partner? How did you tackle the business side of things when you first started this business?

Susie I hired a coach, a business coach. That was the best way for me to learn the ins and outs of what systems I needed to have and how things work. And so that's how I handled the business side of it. The publishing side of it, I worked directly with a woman who was my mentor and I went through her program and became certified. So there was a little bit of education, but it wasn't traditional education in any way. But, and there's a lot of things that I did that I just allowed myself to make mistakes and learn from them. I think most entrepreneurs can attest to that, right?

Dan: One of the things I like to ask, I like to identify different barriers. So if people are trying to enter a particular career, they can decide if this is really for them. So looking at what you do, looking at everything you do in the scope of publishing, what is something that you can say, if someone doesn't like this, then this job is not for them?

Susie I think if somebody does not like books, then this job would not be for them. If somebody does not have the ability or enjoy using your analytical business mind as equally as your creative mind, this would not be the job for them because it does take a balance of those two things in order to be successful in this industry. I'm fortunately, I'm one of those people that is my right and left brain are very equal. So I have the ability to have the business acumen in order to run the business, but at the same time, I also, I can identify what makes a good cover and what's going to sell because I understand the design process, even though I'm not a designer myself. So I think that those things are really important and you really, number one, you gotta love books.

Dan: If someone is just starting out and they decide that they like what they're hearing, they wanna form their own publishing company, this is for them, they love books, this is for them, how, and I recognize this could vary depending on a variety of variables, how long would it take for someone to kind of get up and running? Is this something that's pretty simple? Is there a lot of education, either informal or otherwise, that needs to be done before you can actually start a publishing company? Is it relatively painless? What kind of barriers in that way can they expect?

Susie So I think the first thing is that you have to understand how the industry works. That's one of the main things. And if there was somebody that listens to your podcast and says, "Hey, I wanna do what she does," then you'll have my links and such, just reach out to me and we can talk about it because there's a lot to know. And this industry changes all the time. There's constantly things changing. And we might see an email or see something that's happening. And because I have a very cohesive network of people in the industry, we send in messages back and forth, "Hey, did you see this? Did you see this? Oh, so-and-so just made this change." It's important because you have to stay on top of what happens in the industry as things change very rapidly. But the other thing too is that when somebody is thinking about this as a career, you have to really develop your networking skills. Because if you aren't able to network to bring in those initial clients so that you can create that funnel, that's gonna be really challenging. The other thing is that you have to develop through networking the vendors and the people and the other professionals that you're working with. So you need to have a list of great book designers. You need to have a list of fantastic editors. You've gotta have ghostwriters. You're gonna have to have all these people in your back pocket in order to have your business be successful. And yeah, it's taken me six years to develop everything that I have. But I was fortunate because I was a good networker too. And I helped other people make connections, which actually translated into bigger business for me.

Dan: Let's hang on that for a second. I've spoken to other entrepreneurs and they've talked about the Chamber of Commerce and other local organizations with global reach. Okay, are there any that are specific to the publishing industry that people should look into joining, are there any organizations like that that exist?

Susie Yes, oh, there's tons of them. Just, you can just Google it and find a bunch of them and be members. I'm a member of the IBPA, which is the Independent Book Publishers Association. That is probably the number one that somebody in this industry should be a member of. Because not only is it about networking with other professionals in the industry, but also when you're a member, you also get discounts on a variety of services with their partners, which is super helpful. You know how Comic-Con is a huge thing and there's a whole society around that? Publishing is the same way. I mean, we are a bunch of nerds and we love what we do, but we go to conferences together and we do different things. And so, having that network is really crucial to have that support in your business.

Dan: It's interesting you use the word nerd. I was speaking with Marty Dunn just the other day and he does process improvements essentially. And he referred to himself as, I think he said an operations nerd.

Susie It really can be fun. Yeah, yeah. Especially when you surround yourself with people in the industry that do the same or similar things and where our businesses complement each other. For example, my book designer, one of my book designers, she and I are great friends and we have been for years. And I have several editors and it's really kind of fun because we talk about things that happen in our families and where we're going on vacation. It's not always just about business because these people are critical to us having that. Because we're not going into a nine to five office job every day. We are at home in front of our computers, very isolated. So we have to create that online network, which is it's more than just business, we're friends.

Dan: And I think a lot of entrepreneurs or entrepreneurships kind of lend themselves to that. Where you get like almost like a deeper bond almost than you might get in a traditional workplace. But I think it's very interesting.

Susie And it also gives people in this industry also have the opportunity to travel, to go to conferences, to go visit clients, to go visit other professionals and things like that. So it does lend for a very free lifestyle.

Dan: That is nice. So if anyone values that, which many people do, this could be for them. So let's talk about, you talked about that sometimes the industry changes quickly and you might have to shake things up a little bit. Can you give an example of something that happened that made you have to pivot quickly to address a change that happened within the industry?

Susie Yeah, I just got one in the email. I think it was yesterday or the day before. Ingram Spark is increasing their prices. And this is because of, as we know, the prices of everything is going up. And so they have to pass those, that pricing changes onto the authors that are publishing on that site. So of course I see this and I think, oh goodness. So this means I need to put out a newsletter by next week in order to let people know there's a pricing change that's coming. So please log into your account. Please run the model that they give us to test and see, okay, is my book still gonna be profitable? If not, then what we have to do is we have to reprice that book, which means we have to do a new barcode on the cover. So there's quite a few steps that need to happen. Now, the good thing is that I will have people that come to me and ask me to make these changes. And so it's a way for me to earn a couple bucks to help them if it's something they can't do on their own. But at the same time, it's also like, okay, it's crunch time because this is gonna happen in a few weeks and we have a holiday in there somewhere. So yeah, so it's time to pivot. And yeah, my duty is to get that information out to my authors and say, okay, if your book is gonna be in the red, we have to fix it.

Dan: Susie, unfortunately I'm running out of time, but before I hand the floor over to you, I wanna take a second and thank Laura Van Tyne for introducing us. Laura Van Tyne was in episode 132 as a professional exorcist. So everyone please go check that one out. It was a really, really good one. Now, Susie, this is the part of the show that I'd like to offer my guests the opportunity to talk about a project they're working on, a cause they believe it, more about their business, their podcast. So if there's something specific you'd like to discuss, the floor is yours.

Susie Well, I think if your listeners found this interesting, please feel free to reach out to me. You can find me at FinishTheBookPublishing.com. My podcast is FinishTheDamnBookPodcast.com. And yeah, just find me and ask the question. I love to hear about new stories and I like to hear about what people are doing in the world.

Dan: That is awesome. I'll make sure you get all those links from you. They'll be in the description, they'll be in the show notes, they'll be all over the place when people are trying to find you, they can easily find you. And Susie, thank you again for joining us on Time We Discuss and we learned what it's like running an independent publishing company.

Susie Thanks, Dan.