Divorce Mediator, What's This Career Really Like?

Transcription

(Music)

Dan: No courtrooms, no judges, just tough conversations and life-changing decisions. Today we're talking to divorce mediator Mardi Chadwick-Balcom about what it's really like to help couples separate. Today on Time We Discuss, I want to welcome Mardi Chadwick-Balcom and it's time we discuss what it's like working as a divorce mediator. Mardi, thank you for joining me today.

Mardi Chadwick-Balcom : Thanks Dan, happy to be here.

Dan: This is awesome. So before I get started with my typical, what's a typical day like, because that's where we're going. I want to talk about mediation versus arbitration. I hear both those words being thrown around. I don't know if they're the same thing or not, but I bet you do. So let's start there. How would you define arbitration, mediation? Are they the same? Are they different? Go ahead.

Mardi: The context of mediation, at least how I'm doing it as a divorce mediator, two parties are coming together voluntarily and co-creating an agreement to get divorced. So this is a voluntary choice. No one's forcing you into this process the way I do it. And I'm in Massachusetts. Arbitration, on the other hand, is where parties have either been contractually obligated through maybe a contract. Sometimes if you read through the fine print on a contract, you agree we are going to arbitration. And that means that we're kind of almost giving up our right to sue in a traditional court. And we are going to let the arbitrator, who is a neutral third party, make a binding decision. Mediators, we do not make binding decisions. We are helping the parties co-create and come to a decision, at least in divorce. And then the arbitration, yeah, you're stuck with the decision. And you agree not to go to court. So in many contracts, you have to sign that if you want to do it. Like the arbitration clauses are in many of the contracts. In divorce, sometimes people may agree to go to arbitration because they're-- but it's usually they're stuck. They don't want to be in the litigation. They'll hire a lot of times retired judges to come to an agreement for them. But that's, again, it's voluntary and contractual.

Dan: That makes-- as soon as you said voluntary, I thought, ah, that is the key difference. Because you see that, like you said, in those terms of service, binding arbitration, that was like, ah, makes complete sense. OK, cool. All right, so we got that out of the way. So now let's talk about your typical day as a divorce mediator. What is that like?

Mardi: It varies a lot. But what I will say is I have control over my schedule, which is a beautiful thing, one of the reasons that I chose to do this work. So I spend a lot of time-- as a solo practitioner, I run my own business. I'm the only one. I do everything. So it might be marketing. I might spend my morning doing some marketing. It might be doing intakes with folks, doing-- I do free consultations. A lot of times it's with one party to find out, is mediation right for us? What the heck is mediation? What would happen if we did this? And I talk to both parties. And then we mediate, right? So once I get people on board, we actually enter a process where I do it either in person or virtual, depending on what their needs are. Usually together, most of my cases, I try and do at least the first session together. And we're going to talk about all the things we've got to talk about to get you through the process to get the ultimate goal and agreement that you can file with the court so that you can get your divorce. So I'm doing either consultation. I'm doing mediation. Or then, because I'm a lawyer and I'm the type of mediator that produces your documents, I spend a lot of time doing the paperwork. I'm going to write your agreement. I'm going to review all of your financials. I might talk to your collaterals. They can hire attorneys to be part of the process. We hire divorce financial specialists or lending specialists. So I'm your organizer. I'm kind of like the conductor. Like I'm doing all the different things to get you from the beginning to the end.

Dan: When someone works with you, are they also working together with their own lawyer typically? Or is it more of like, but they decide that you're getting a divorce. Let's try to go to a mediator first and then kind of go. How do the lawyers, if at all, how do they factor into this?

Mardi: Even though I am a lawyer, I cannot be your lawyer or your partner's lawyer, right? So I have to be a neutral third party. That's the key element of mediation. And so I can't say what you should or should not do. I can explain everything to you and I can explain it in very clear terms, but I can't give you legal advice. So I always recommend people have a lawyer at least review their agreement to make sure they've fully understood it and had all opportunity to ask questions. Sometimes people do, sometimes they don't. It's absolutely their choice. I do have some cases though, where lawyers are involved sometimes on the periphery, like in the behind the scenes. And I've had cases where lawyers are in the room. So they let me do kind of the orchestration and all of the work, but then they're working with their clients. Maybe they speak, maybe they're just observing. Every case is a little bit different. So lawyers can have a bunch of different roles in a mediation.

Dan: One thing I want to talk about is the, not the training so much, but the intrinsic skills. What does it actually take to be a mediator? And again, not training, just more of like intrinsically, what does it take?

Mardi: It takes an ability to be neutral and ability to not take sides, which for lawyers is hard. We are trained to be advocates for our clients. And so when we are in this neutral third party role, our job is to facilitate conversation. And for me, I do it with all of the negotiation skills I've learned, but also I do it from a place of nervous system regulation. I come from, I have a lot of training in that background. I want two people to be able to be present, have conversations from a place where they feel as safe as one can be in these kind of very high stakes, high conflict, potentially situations. So it requires an ability to, in my opinion, hold space for people in these dysregulated, highly up and down emotional patterns, to be able to help them cut through that while still feel what they feel, to get to ultimately an agreement that is not all fraught with emotion and pain and all of the things that come out usually in divorce.

Dan: Now other side of the coin, let's talk about education. Do you need to be a lawyer to be a mediator? How does one get the training necessary to be a mediator?

Mardi: Yeah, that's another great question. No, you do not need to be a lawyer in most states. I should, I can speak to Massachusetts where I'm licensed as an attorney, you don't have to be licensed to be a mediator. Most mediators have one of two types of backgrounds, a lawyer or therapists. There are a lot of people who are therapists who go into mediation because they've got a lot of really great skills, again, on holding space for people and helping people have these very challenging and difficult conversations. I think the difference is, is the product at the end. So when I work with folks, we are, because I'm a trained lawyer, I can do much of the paperwork and craft a legal agreement. When somebody's a therapist, they usually craft what they call memorandums of understanding where they put all of the agreements in there. And then it usually goes to a lawyer to draft the final document to present to a court.

Dan: Before you talked about, you can make your own schedule. Okay, awesome. Now what do you typically see? Do you see that most people need nights and weekends? Do you see that a lot of people can see you during the day? What is that typically like for you?

Mardi: Yeah, it's funny. When I started, I was way more flexible. I'm like, "Oh, do it anytime." And I'm just going to really see where it goes. And now that I'm very busy, I try and do it during the day. I pick certain days of the week that I do the sessions and I will be flexible for folks. We can do it a little bit later in the day. I've just found, again, from a nervous system regulation place, people are exhausted and they don't show up as their best selves. So I really try and find times at work with them where they can...we're not mushing it into their schedule, but we're really trying to get to...usually I don't do it more than two hours at a time because most people can't handle that. So where can we carve out two hours in your day where you can either show up in my office and we have a different experience in person or online in that we can have productive conversations. So I do it during work days, Monday. Right now, Monday through Friday is varying, but nine to five-ish.

Dan: Now, I realize this is going to be different for everybody, but how often do you end up seeing the same people? How many conversations do you need to have? Is it typically as many as three? Is it several dozen? Typically, how often do you meet with your clients?

Mardi: I have a flat fee structure because I believe, again, if containment is helpful, we do not have more than five sessions together within that. So I really try and cap that. I am finding people go between two and three to be really productive. After three, we're almost rehashing things. So unless it's like where something changes, we should be done by three. I will work with folks in between to get more information, clarify things, go back and forth, and then we come together to do a final review and signing. So three average, definitely no more than five.

Dan: That's good to know. I was speaking with a hypnotist early in my career here, and he was saying something very similar where it was at least two to three because he was doing the client a disservice if he didn't actually see him a couple of times. But similar to what you were saying, once you get past like three, maybe he said five, I don't even remember, but then it's like if things aren't changing, we need to have a talk because this might not be, you might need something else essentially. That's really good to know.

Mardi: Some people do. I've heard of people being in mediation for a year, and I was like, no, no, that's not my method. It doesn't work for me. I think it defeats the purpose of what we're trying to do, which is cost-effective, time-effective, and get people through the process with less harm.

Dan: That's great, especially with divorce because they can drag on for a long time. They can be very time-consuming, financially consuming. That's good. That's good.

Mardi: Yes, yes.

Dan: When it comes to employment of mediators, so you said you have your own business. How common is it for mediators to work in a firm? Is that common, not common, somewhere in the middle?

Mardi: It's somewhere in the middle. I think a lot of lawyers work for themselves or small firms. It's really, I mean, they're certainly the big firms. There's some places, again, I'm in Massachusetts, and there are some places that do just mediation, so they'll hire folks to do that. But most of what I find is it's either attorneys who want to get more into less litigation, they'll start doing almost side mediation as part of their offering. Some of us, like me, are done with litigation, and that's all we do. It's very suited to what your needs are. I think you can find it in all iterations.

Dan: I'm so glad you mentioned that because a lot of times I'll look at what is it like if someone wants to change careers midlife. And it sounds like a nice kind of path. If you are an attorney and you decide you want to get out of the courtroom or something like that, something a little different, mediation could be a next logical step. Now the other side of that, what happens when you, a person, when a person decides that they no longer want to be a mediator, what are some paths out of that where they continue to grow and change their career that would make sense?

Mardi: If you want to stay in the legal world, like there's so many options available, I could do parent coordination, working with folks that can't agree. You could do what we call GAL work or investigative work. If you're a lawyer, there's lots of things you can do being a lawyer. You could go back to traditional litigation. But I also think you could do it, I'm doing it in divorce because that's what I know. But if I wanted to get creative, I could be like, wow, maybe I want to do work with businesses. Maybe I want to do some, you know, I might want to go pro bono and volunteer at a court and do mediation because some states mandate mediation in various ways to resolve conflict. So there you could do it that it's different. I mean, some people, if you're really good at holding space, you wanted to get into more restorative work, they have like restorative justice circles in places. Like these skills are really important skills that you can use to help people solve conflict and be able to move together or move forward, maybe not together, but to move forward in a more peaceful, defined path. So I think it's really up to as creative as you can be, honestly.

Dan: Some wiggle room coming into the job and some wiggle room going out to the next career as well. I love that. Okay.

Mardi: Yeah.

Dan: All right. So going back to education, and I don't know if you answered this part or not, I definitely did not ask it. Are there any specific certifications that go along with being a mediator? And has that happened at a national level, a state level? What does that part look like if it exists?

Mardi: In Massachusetts, we can be certified mediators, which I am not because I realized I'm a trained mediator and I've been gone through like a 40 plus hour training way. I did it a long time ago, but and then you just kind of keep honing your skills. And then you have to do certain things to be a trained mediator by the courts for certain things. But a certified mediator in Massachusetts anyway, there's a lot more to do. And it feels like it's a master's degree, quite honestly, when I looked at it, which is I'm like, I don't need this. I don't need more, right? I don't need more education. But I think for some people, a lot of people do like to have a lot of additional training and support. Again, most mediators I know are usually either therapists or attorneys, but other people could, you know, they certainly could get the training. They could come in with different backgrounds. And I think that each state is a little bit different in what they require. So it's important for you to know what your state requirements are. We have, especially in divorce mediation, we have a statute that protects the communications, which is important. It's not attorney-client, but it's mediator, you know, mediator-client. And usually those require some kind of training to get that protection. It's not like, you know, you could just decide to say, I'm going to mediate for you. I have no credentials and I'm going to protect this. Like there's usually some requirements.

Dan: So you went to law school. They don't necessarily teach you about business in law school from what I've heard from other lawyers that I've spoken to. So how did you bridge the knowledge gaps when it comes to you and your business? Did you go back to school, podcasts, books? You made a lot of mistakes. How did you learn the business side of things that other people can leverage?

Mardi: One, I'm married to an MBA. So that's really great. He runs his own business. So it's super helpful. Although, you know, we want to keep it separate because I don't like being told what to do. So there's a fine line to walk around that. You know, I've been in this, I graduated law school in 1998. So I've been doing the work for a long time. I also worked for nonprofits most of my career and in senior management in a huge healthcare organization. So I learned a lot about business and how to run things, how to do the finances, how to just a lot of the things that are required. And I did have my own law practice for a little bit many years ago. And I learned how hard it is to be a business person. I wasn't ready then. So this time around, I've been much more prepared and understanding the many aspects. You know, I think working for a nonprofit and some of them are really grassroots, you do everything. And as a small business owner, a solo, you do everything. You know, you can farm some things out, but ultimately at the end of the day, it's all I'm responsible for everything.

Dan: I want you to take the fact that you have your own business, I want you to set that aside. You talked about your schedule, I want you to set that aside for a second. I want you to think about just the job itself, that what you do, what makes being a mediator the best job?

Mardi: It is an opportunity to hold space and be with people in one of the most difficult times that they are going to have. So if you're a person that likes to help others and can tolerate holding difficult space, it is a beautiful thing to be able to offer people an alternative, in my opinion. And especially for anyone that's ever gone through their own divorce, no matter how you went through it, you just know it's a really, really hard process. And so, I mean, again, I've been in hard work my whole career. Most of the cases when I litigated were domestic violence, divorce cases. So I'm used to being in this work, and I find this to be a much different experience, but also kind of along that same veins of being and walking with people. And that's what a mediator does, you walk with people. We're not telling them what to do. I'm not responsible for their lives at the end of the day, but I am a piece of the puzzle to help them and offer them an alternative to be able to move forward. So I like that.

Dan: What would be the worst part of this job?

Mardi: You're with people at the most difficult times of their lives, and you've got to be able to hold that space. And I had to leave litigation because I was so burned out from holding that space for so many years with so many traumatized people going through and divorce is trauma. I don't care what the thing is, it's traumatic. And if you are not regulated yourself, it's really, really, really hard to do. And honestly, we can cause more harm as attorneys, as mediators, as any professional in this work when we're out of regulation, out of sorts, we can cause more harm. So it can be really, it's a lot of burnout. Attorneys in general have a lot of burnout rate, but divorce attorneys in particular, divorce is hard. It's really hard. And it's one of the lowest, I do a lot of energy work from a vibrational perspective, working with people in this field. It's one of the lowest vibrational energies. And so if you're not equipped to do it, it can wreck you.

Dan: I've heard that before about the stress and the burnout. And that kind of also leads me to this question, and you kind of touched on it, but I'm going to dive a little deeper. Talk to me about the separation of your work life and your personal life, especially after leaving working as an attorney and going into mediation, I'm assuming that improved. But what is that like now? Do you find it hard to turn off that part of your brain at five o'clock? Is it easy? Talk to me about that.

Mardi: I have done a lot to achieve work life balance. So again, part of having my own business, that was part of it, I can create my own schedule. So every morning I do yoga at 5am. I am doing Pilates. I am doing all the things that I help people do for nervous system regulation for myself first. And that is the key for me being able to show up. But shutting off my brain, I don't know, I've yet to figure out exactly how to do it, which is why I have to keep doing all these things. But I know that when my brain starts, when I'm taking my cases home and spending too much time on them, that's a signal to me that I need to recalibrate so that I can have some separation from that. In running your own business, it's hard because you got to do things, right? Nobody else is going to do it. So it's really trying to be disciplined around when I work and when I don't work.

Dan: Mardi, one of the questions I'd like to ask has to do with barriers to entry and specifically identifying hidden barriers that someone might not have realized existed. So think about your job as a whole, and something that is crucial to this job, that if someone doesn't like doing this, then being a mediator is not for them.

Mardi: Sitting with people yelling at you or each other. If you can't handle other people's discomfort, and if you cannot sit in silence and hold the space, if you have to talk to fill it, no, because sitting and holding the space and just pausing. Again, it's one of the most important things we can do, especially when there's an outburst. If you're a people pleaser and want to make everyone feel better, which I am a recovering one of those, and this job forces me to learn how to not do that. It will show you real quick how to not do that. It doesn't work.

Dan: I was speaking with someone. I have to put the link somewhere. But I was speaking with someone and they said a very similar thing about being yelled at. And they're not necessarily yelling at you, but they need to get that out somehow, and you just happen to be the person there at the time. So I've definitely, definitely heard that before.

Mardi: Yep.

Dan: Similarly, what about some of the hidden perks? So for instance, a simple example, you might work at a coffee shop or a restaurant, you might get a free meal or a free coffee. Being a mediator, what are some of the hidden perks, if any, of being a mediator?

Mardi: Well, the way I do it, again, I do nervous system regulation and I'm a sound healer, right? So I have my little yoga studio attached to my mediation studio. So I get to walk out anytime I need to do myself a little sound healing, some crystal balls. I have a beautiful, like, anti-gravity hammock. I can do my own little meditation, little relaxation to help rejuvenate me. It's a beautiful, a beautiful way to be able to regulate myself and especially on some of these tough days. Yeah. So, and I create my own schedule. So I think that's a huge perk in and of itself always.

Dan: So many people have said that, especially entrepreneurs. I was speaking with a financial analyst and she said the exact same thing, the ability to create her own schedule and be there for her kids when they get on the bus, get off the bus both. But just such a huge, huge perk. Mardi, the role of being a mediator is so, so interesting. Had no idea it existed. I'm so glad that I had the opportunity to have you on the show. Unfortunately, I am running out of time, but before I hand the floor over to you, I want to take a second and thank Jolee Vacchi for introducing us. Jolee was in episode 154 as a family law attorney. Everyone go, please check out that episode. Link is in the description. Now, Mardi, this is the part of the show where I'd like to offer my guests the opportunity to talk about a project they're working on, cause they believe in, more about their business. So if there's something specific you'd like to discuss, the floor is yours.

Mardi: Thank you. So if anyone's in Massachusetts and needs a divorce mediator, you can check me out at integrativedivorcemediation.com. But for those of you that are not, I have a couple of things for you. I do actually have a free online course on my website, all about divorce, about nervous system regulation and divorce. And it is free. It really just helps people understand what the process is and gives you some tools to actually learn about regulation. And then I am hosting or launching my own podcast in June called the regulated lawyer, where I'm going to be talking about nervous system regulation and sometimes the law, but really how we, how important this is and why you cannot make good legal decisions from a dysregulated nervous system. So really trying to give you information about that so it can help people do divorce better.

Dan: That is awesome. I'll make sure I get all the links from you. I'll put them in the show notes in the description. They'll be all over the place where people are trying to find info about you and your podcast. They can easily do that.

Mardi: Great.

Dan: Mardi it has been absolutely awesome having you on Time We Discuss and we learned all about divorce mediation.

Mardi: Thanks so much. Dan, it was great to share with you.

Dan: What are some of the highlights of being a mediator? One of the cool things you get to make your own hours, nothing wrong with that. You could be an entrepreneur. You could also work in a firm two completely different opportunities, each with their own perks, which is awesome. One minor detail that could be a little challenging is that this particular role is geared more towards people with a psychology background or lawyers. So if you're not in either of those fields, this could be a little more challenging to not only maybe not get into, but be very successful in. You might find yourself needing to take supplemental classes or finding education in other areas, but it seems definitely reasonable that this could be an option. One of the really cool things is that if you're already involved in a psychology field or if you're already involved in a law field and you want to get out of either of those, this seems like a really good option to kind of get away from your old career, especially if you're facing burnout. So this could be a viable option for someone, especially in one of those two fields. One of the really difficult things about this job is you're dealing with people when they're at their most vulnerable, when people are getting a divorce, emotions are high, things can be very tense and you need to be equipped to deal with that. So make sure you're taking care of yourself while you're taking care of your clients. Let's talk about job growth. As of April of 2026, jobs in this area are expanding. They are growing at about as fast as average, which is good. If you want to get into this career, it's good to know that it's a growing field. Let's talk salary for this job. You're not going to quite make as much as a lawyer, probably, but it's still not a bad way to earn a living, especially when you look at all the other perks. The salary range, according to United States data, is that your salary could be anywhere between about $46,000 up to about $133,000, with those two numbers being the lower 10% of people and the upper 10% of people. But when it comes to the actual median salary, you're looking at more about $67,000 a year. Now, this could change drastically based on your location and your expertise. So what do you think? We have some positives, we have some negatives. Is this the best job for you? Let's keep on exploring. I'll see you next time on Time We Discuss.